What High Performers Do—Focus

What High Performers Do—Focus

happy Friday everybody welcome to the Future on today's show today's show we're gonna be talking about whether or not you should work while in school doesn't matter if you're going to design school if you're studying architecture or you're becoming an attorney whatever it is I have a very strong point of view on this on whether or not you should work in school and I made a video about this now I want to give some context for the show before we kind of invite our other panelists to debate this discussion with us and Matthew is going to share the Xoom webinar link within this YouTube and Facebook so that if you guys want to join us if you have a strong point of view one way or the other I would love to talk to you about this okay now the the episode I'm talking about in particular was this one called resist the temptation to work while in school and this was a kind of off-the-cuff conversation I had with some students who visited here from Cal State Northridge where they were talking about whether or not they should work in school and a teacher was recommending that they didn't and I agreed with that teacher and why did I agree with them duties why did I agree with them the reason is is this is because we kind of look at I will just do the math with you guys Erica who will come back to me I want to just do the math with you guys if you are going to a private art school as I did it's quite expensive when you're paying a bit of money to go to a private art school so if you're looking at a school like say Art Center or Ottis or Cal arts it's going to be somewhere around 20 thousand US dollars per semester so if you go to school and you pay somebody a lot of money to learn something does it make sense then to go get a job at a much lower rate so that's one about finances and then some people are going to counter that you can learn more by doing that the best way to learn is through through experience and by taking action so then this raises the question and the reason why I have such a strong opinion about this is if you're not learning while in school anymore and you're getting a better education elsewhere why are you still going to school that's what we want to talk about today that's what we're going to do so I'd love to hear your comments and questions and your point of view this is going to be one of those special rods where we've made it easy for you to jump in on the conversation with us all you have to do is join the zoom webinar link and let people know I have a strong opinion and Matthew will be moderating it if you have a really great question or comment he's gonna activate you so that you can get on camera you can join us live on the show well I'm not gonna talk anymore let's keep it real let's keep it raw Erica please roll the titles alright welcome back to the show now I'm sure there are a lot of opinions and the reason why I want to do a follow-up episode to this was because there was a lot of dissent there was a lot of disagreement even on Twitter saying that it's absolutely necessary and vital for some people just to pay for cost of living to do that and I totally understand that because not everybody can afford education not everybody has parents who were willing to do that or lives in a country or someplace where education is affordable and I understand that because I too had to struggle with paying for my tuition while going to school but I always thought that if it got to be really really desperate I would exhaust every means to me prior to working the first option I would exhaust is I use my credit cards I pretty much maxed out every single one of my credit cards in order to pay for school to pay for supplies and to cover the gap in which I wasn't able to to get in a student loan or my parents weren't giving me enough so that I can get through school and so I just use credit cards okay the other thing that I wound up doing was cutting back all of my living expenses down to the bare minimum I'm not living a lavish lifestyle while in school now it's it's alright it may be hard to believe this but while going to Art Center had many friends who were upper middle class or upper class or just downright filthy rich and they would be busy driving in their sports kind of European cars and shopping at Barneys and things like that I was eating bread which is with liverwurst and tomatoes or eating top ramen doing whatever it is that I needed to do and the reason why I stayed away from working while in school was because I spent every waking moment every little bit of energy that I had in my little body to to learn more or to challenge myself by taking more classes or taking classes that I had really no right to be a part of but I'll give you an example what that is so I studied graphic design what gone Art Center but I wanted to improve my skills in illustration and in 3d graphics so I took 3d modeling classes which was kind of pretty brand new back in the 1990's the early 90s okay and I was taking illustration and painting classes next to people who were illustration majors now I felt really intimidated I didn't have the skills but in just doing that I learned so much more and I also took classes where you it's called viscom which is what industrial designers take at art center where there's like really the incredible drafting skills and I remember having a conversation with a teacher because I was clearly far behind everybody else and the teacher told me I cannot slow the class down for one student it is expected for each student to be able to work at a certain level and I just can't do that so ultimately I understood that and I had to drop the class and the rest of my time I spent either in a computer lab working on digital skills or in the library while it was still open so that's my life and those are my experiences and I do want to say one thing because in case there are some friends of mine colleagues or classmates of mine from school who noticed like I was working so I'm not being a hypocrite when I say that and I'll share more about that in a little bit hey Matthew and Erin did you guys work while you guys were in school just out of curiosity I did I also went to art center just like you yep and the first half of me they are the center I did have two different jobs during that's a period so I did work for a non-profit as a graphic designer and then I also worked your mic is is not top facing oh okay there you go there we go yeah sorry technical difficulty cool difficulties it's like we've never done this show and you know I would expect your two cast mates here they're like yeah I'll exit the room and tell you okay two different jobs one as a graphic designer as a at a non-profit and I also worked retail for a little bit and that was just the first few terms at Art Center and the reason being was you know I got into Art Center coming from a different design school already so I felt a little cocky I felt a little arrogant and I felt ahead of the curve because I went into the classes I didn't really try that hard and I still got A's so I just felt like you know I have time to you know I didn't really value a lot of the fundamental stuff that I did early on at Art Center and so I was just it was it was my ego that would that was in the way mm-hmm and then at a certain point about halfway through my education I got introduced to motion design I took your class Chris and just learned about this whole new world because I was previously setting print design and packaging and then I discovered motion design and that was totally new to me I had no idea that you could do that you could come by animation and design and do that for a living and do that for TV commercials and it was incredibly hot at that moment so at that point I stopped all of my jobs I focus 100% on school and then I converted and got very focused on all of my classes nice I think John Rothman has something to say about that cool story bro the capture his essence before he flew the coop anyways I do want to clarify a couple of things about your story because I know a little bit more about it you went to another art institution and I think you were shy of graduating right or did you graduate I mean I finished with my associates degree okay and I didn't pursue my bachelor's so I because I felt that particular school wasn't that competitive for me so I wanted to go to another school to be more competitive I was just like ahead of everybody there so this is like I'm I'm bored of this school let me go somewhere else mm-hmm here all these great things about Art Center I wasn't serious about it enough before mm-hmm so I transferred to our Center of course as soon as I get to Art Center I'm a little bit complacent you know right you're getting A's in the class so what's what's the point right so let's look I have extra time I need the extra money let me just take a job at the same time right so I think there's it's it's worthwhile to kind of highlight a specific moment here you finish getting your art associated arts degree and your you were just really thinking and you need a bachelor's degree and you were already kind of acing everything and ahead of all your classmates so I guess in a way you had a right to feel kind of confident whether you say cocky or not what whatever and so you're really pursuing initially a degree at art center just so you can say you have a bachelor's degree right that's correct and so you were just kind of going through the motions in the beginning so you felt like you know this isn't really that challenge so you didn't really apply yourself it's not until you actually figure it out what it is that you wanted to do and found out man this is actually kind of hard that you really focused in like laser focus that you then had to stop all your other activities so how you discovered at the very beginning if you approach school a little bit differently that would have happened at that day one that's my opinion that's correct exactly right and that was my experience because to me the lower terms terms one through four where all the foundational things are taught are some of the most important things that you can learn by skipping over some of that as so many of my classmates did and they didn't really fully apply themselves when they got into the upper terms into advanced graphic design studios and advanced concepts or advertising they started to crumble because they didn't master the foundation or the fundamentals first so this is a really a discussion about that whether or not you can should have to and what your giving and everything in life whether it be about pursuing a particular client or doing a pet project of yours you have to kind of realize the one thing that's consistent and constant with all of us is you have a finite amount of time here on earth right you when you do something when you choose to do something you're taking time away from doing something else so the first question I want to throw out to our audience and people who are attending the live webinar here it's just to think about this is is there more that you can be doing while in school have you eat out every single drop of knowledge that you're paying for already because the rate in which you're getting paid to do work is going to be far less than what you've paid to acquire that education here sub posts the beginning so if you're not getting that education that's a different conversation to begin with but assuming that you're going to a good school that has great passionate teachers and it's got a great robust program you have to start to ask yourself why am i doing something else rather than getting what I paid for that's the first part of this conversation so let's open it up is anybody in the webinar that has a point of view either to share an experience yeah yeah so I started in the an office job and then I got it at the arc Network which is all Ringling television they film everything which is how I learned how to camera and how to edit and everything so that was kind of learning but I still got paid for it kind of thing so it sort of fed into more of what I was learning so that was helpful for me the office job was you know finally stuff like that which helped the monotony of that helps free my brain a little bit so I can think clearer for projects so that in that way it helped me okay it didn't take up too much of my time well let me ask you this question here I I want to get a more emphatic point of view from you are you saying you should work while you're in school or not work while you're in school and then tell me your biggest compelling reason well talk about it from your situation my situation I just gasps all that stuff so you had no choice no you always have a choice everybody has a choice man mm-hmm but for me personally I I probably in retrospect I probably shouldn't have because it also depends on how you learn and I should have like I need to call down have plenty of time to think about what I'm doing so I probably should shouldn't have done all that work except for art Network was very helpful but the office job was just a job to earn money of course can I ask a question about Matthew story yeah yes you can ask you can ask I want to wrap up what Erica is talking about said I'm still a little confused I just want a more emphatic answer because the show like I want to sharpen our point of view and through debate and dialogue the kind of this robust conversation we can help young people who are maybe in high school or in college right now we're thinking about this very thing so I want to be able to give different points of view and be able to clearly articulate that as much as possible so if I'm understanding Erica's situation here is maybe the school wasn't as challenging or maybe she'd like to learn in different ways and she needed to buy a few things so the only way she could do that on top of paying for school was to get work and and she's saying that work was somewhat relevant she was on campus it was something very manageable right that's kind of what you're saying yeah I guess basically especially the job that pertained to I I went to for motion design and video is part of motion design so that job helped me with my major but the other job I did just that to earn money okay I try I try well no I blame Matthew your story you said you discovered motion graphics because you work for Chris right no I I took this class and because I discovered motion design as a potential career then I dropped everything and focus 100% on that when you say dropped everything you mean you quit working that's correct he quit girls he quit drugs he quit work b-boy everything he can be the motion superstar that who was going to become okay so I'm an extremist right like I I don't like shades of grey so much I like black and white I'm either into something or I'm out of it and I can actually burn really hot and then I'm done and I move on with my life and I think it's that kind of polarity or that extremism that it's been able to be very helpful to me in my career so if you're looking at my life in my career and you want to be able to achieve the things that I've been able to achieve this is my template this is my plan and of course there are many ways to get there and there are other ways from other people and they're gonna totally contradict what it is what I'm saying all right so Erin did you work while you're in school do you have an opinion or point of view on this I'm not saying you have to say anything I'm just asking I did not my parents raised me when the manner of thinking that your school is your work when you're a kid so just focus on school focus on school and that's what you did you focus 100% on school the entire time I don't agree with that way have a job because you get some life experience I feel like Matthews story's a good example because he would have never wanted to go back to school if he hadn't been working right what like he had to drop everything meaning his jobs and everything so it made it like a high stakes sort of decision was a real decision to have the extra income I just felt like I had an extra I said use to do it it's like if I can make money while I'm in school might as well do it so I support myself and don't have to worry about extra loans or asking my parents for anything yeah I just had okay I wanted to do one thing and I think we want to talk to everybody that's on or whoever that wants to say something so we're gonna kill you up in a second okay Matthew get them ready thank you I do want to say this one thing I'm not telling you I came from means I did not I mean I was just barely getting by just barely just buried in debt too while I was in school and just thinking I'm gonna get out of this but there's one thing that I did do when I had free time and free time meaning whatever time I had out of class I would try to do double the amount of work that I was asked to I would try to take it to the extreme degree and what happened is at the end of each semester I had I think a better portfolio to show for it and I would use that portfolio to apply for more scholarship money and almost every single semester that I applied for the eight semesters that I was there I got more scholarship so I became a better student a better designer and the school rewarded me for this every single time so when I entered school I was very fortunate to get a 50% scholarship by the time I finished school I think it was like 90% of the school was paid for by the school itself so that's one way so instead of working at Abercrombie & Fitch or flipping burgers and fries or hustling on the side doing a couple like little freelance things that weren't really adding to my knowledge base it was probably gonna give me some work experience but I just became this hyper focused designer and was able to leverage that and I got more money every single time I applied almost now let's do this let's jump to somebody who's got a point of view yeah you agree or not coming strong who are we gonna talk to we got a brand brand Oh video what's up Brenda hey what's up Chris how you doing I'm doing good I like that first you coming in with the name like Brando and then you've got a blue snowball microphone so you ready for this man you got hair and makeup you are ready to rock I'm short known as on love this okay what do you got then talk to me okay I want to talk to you a little bit about my personal story I'm 22 I'm studying architecture in Munich and I realized like half the way there architecture is really it's really hard working as an architect it takes a long time and therefore I start learning about a graphic design and mostly about branding I think my name suits very well for the job and I started working on looking up for some design jobs and the thing was I was to unexperienced for design for getting an internship in sign but I was actually quite good for architecture and so I wanted to try to find something in the middle and I'm working at a I took a semester off only to work only to dedicate my time and now I'm working at an architecture studio as a graphic designer so I got old ways and I think it's very very important because it adds to my differentiating factor as I'm student and as a future professional I think the money is the least thing I would worry about but it also inspires me to make out also my own company I've been going to a lot of groups of young students young entrepreneurs and most of them work very very hard while they're studying and most of the most innovative startups in Munich they actually are founded by students working students who would just study what they have to do there at the exams they do is as good as as good as they can but they focus the main focus in the work and I believe that is if students would mostly work and just learn on the on the other hand would say 60 work and 40% on studying I would believe that would be a better mix okay hi so I'm curious how you came up with that formula 60 percent 40 like why 60 40 well that's just I would say because the 50/50 thing doesn't work for me I believe nothing is really 50/50 so you guys so you want to edge it so I was reading some of the comments while listening to you so 60% goes to worker school to work to work so right now you're saying you value work more than school yes because at school you all do you all have the same tasks I'm Mia and all the hundred people we are going to do very similar projects with very similar teachers and so we all do the same thing so I believe that thing that will differentiate you is what you do after school after class what you work on after the time okay let me ask you something are you learning from your instructors yes I am he had to think about that because his instructors you're not done with school yet right no I'm not yeah okay so if you're learning from your teachers when your focus is only 40 percent in class what do you think the difference is going to be if I was your classmate and I gave it not 100 percent one hundred and eighty percent so you're gonna do forty percent of the work or forty percent of your energy and I'm gonna do twice as much as a normal student so let's just say I'm gonna do two hundred percent so I have already one hundred and sixty percent more invested in this class and you who's going to emerge with more information you were me that's a gratefully you know of course you all the way all the way but I'm also talking about what differentiates because you would be learning only one path and I think people who are multi I don't know if the word is multi-talented multi-disciplinary they usually are can do they are most better suited for tasks that I would believe are more difficult or more dynamic so I think the combination of not only what you're starting but maybe something else it's a very powerful combination right okay let's let's continue this dialogue and debate for a little bit all right so I wanna say imagine yourself hiring a personal trainer at an elite gym you're gonna pay top dollar because I'm just talking about the United States I'm not sure what's like in Munich in terms of the education of the cost I mean I don't know if you guys get it for free or not but I'm gonna pay top dollar for me best personal trainer I'd need best most elite gym in the world and someone cost me an arm and a leg to go to it I show up and then and the trainer starts pushing me and saying you need to do this and we're working out together but you know instead of doing ten reps I do four instead of lifting a hundred pounds I do forty pounds and that's what I do and I'm like you know what I think I need to like and I need a star in a stunt movie I think that's better using us how am I gonna get really fit so I start doing that on the side so much that it starts to divert my attention away from this and then there's this other person going to the exact same gym doing the 10 reps lifting 100 pounds or do whatever or 200 pounds and there what kind of who's gonna get the gains here this is the problem that I have with this is if you're going to a good school and you have a great instructor and some really good classmates are you leaving something behind by not 100% focus on that are you not going to the 3d prototyping lab and facility and really kind of tweaking and learning how you can create architecture that can't even be dreamt of in in the in the normal way and you're doing some radical things or perhaps you're spending a lot of your time studying films and looking at how films can be a source of inspiration for architecture that's the problem see so when you work the ideas when you work you apply what you learn so the theories and when you work you are not taking in new information you're just demonstrating what you've learned now that's not to say that there are some work opportunities I'd like to think that we're one of them when you come to us you're going to leave the experience smarter better faster more informed but we're I think relatively unique in that we we almost take our internship program or work experience thing as almost as if it were like class and that's just a reflection of our culture and my background having taught for 15 years when we sit down we talk to people we teach them we don't just say get to work start doing drawings build models and then leave you alone because then all you're doing is demonstrating that and exchanging what you're gonna get back is going to pale in comparison to the price you paid for what it is that you're supposed to be learning Brandl back to you yeah I agree I mean it was a great example about the work out well I would I think it's all it's always a question about optimizing the time that you have according to your goals and so if I would be like a CEO of a great enterprise team like Jeff Bezos I will I would go and work out where my goal is not to be like a professional bodybuilder but just to be healthy but just to have the best thing in that sort in that short amount of time so if I go to university I my very best while I'm at the University but thing is what do I do after it I mean I'm not going to go for a hundred percent of the university I would give I would say everything that I have done but I will finish it off and then I will go to the other test that is work that is the practicality of the things because the problem also is I believe that people a lot of my colleague my students my friends once they're done with the studying they're like okay what do I do now how do I put this into practice how do I get a how do I build my own architecture should be no one taught me these things and those are things that you can only learn if you're outside of the of the University of you're outside of the school if you go and you go into the field for example I learned I think the most about graphic design when I was in an internship like a year ago mmm-hmm about design and this guy he just said oh you study architecture so you might be just creative so coming to my studio for the and those were the hardest two months that I had to work right but I learned how much that time whereas so here you're saying that you have an interest into something and and work became your best teacher so then the argument is then why go to school so I think a lot of us are programmed to go to school to get a job so when we see that the jobs available to us that's a shortcut right it's like well if the point of me going to school is get a job then that's the most direct path and I can't argue that but I don't think the point of going to school is to get a job I think the point of going to school is to learn to learn about yourself to learn from your professors and to go really deep into figuring out your voice your point of view into the world and there's no better or safer place to do it than in school to experiment to try new things to fail in catastrophic ways so you know who you are and what you want and what you're made of I also believe when you're in school it's also the build up a relationship with professors and classmates so later on when they're out in the field and they're working for big clients and they need help they're gonna remember Brando they're not gonna remember the guy who didn't really show up they're not gonna remember the guy who barely did the minimum to get through because they were just too busy for liking about and getting work on the side right that's the big difference so I think what we have to do is we have to rewire our mind to say that if we're going to be in school and we're gonna pay an exorbitant amount of money be in school whether it's through loans or parents or or whatever else however you get through through scholarships or grants that you need to maximize and squeeze every little bit out now it's dangerous you brought up Jeff Bezos here dangerous and I'm glad you brought this up for this debate okay Brando Jeff Bezos runs one of the most valuable companies on planet earth and every seemingly every category they go into they destroy and dominate I recall reading in many different articles and tech journals to say from other CEOs how is it possible they can execute so well in so many different categories I'll give you one example in terms of AI and voice-recognition they're not necessarily perceived as a tech company in that way most people would think of Amazon as an e-commerce company that is unparalleled but they came in after Apple head Siri and and Google what is Google saying I forget what they're they have a name it might just be hey Google whatever it is what is your name and then came out with Alexa which is outperforming everything and they're totally destroying it and how is he able to do that and I'm gonna just venture a guess here and if you talk to most successful executives entrepreneurs they're gonna tell you one thing it's focus focus now distractions they're not doing a thousand different things until they master that thing be Zoe's do not go out and look like The Incredible Hulk on day one he's actually just a typical executive at a tech company it's not until after he's able to do all these things that he applied his mind to the next thing to the next challenge my concern for a lot of young people is the lack of focus just like my boys they want to do a little bit of this a little bit of that and they're not gonna ever get really good like one of my boys he's 12 years old he works for me every day I come home he runs up to the door he greets me with a giant big hug he's like dad and then and then he tells me he looks up me with his little eyes and he says I earned five dollars today because I worked for you one hour I said that's incredible my boy and said how do you feel he's like I feel tired he says if you've worked one hour what do you think that's gonna be like when you work ten hours or you're you like that and you're working 18 hours a day how's that gonna feel and tomorrow maybe you can try to do two hours like now now I'm gonna watch some Netflix I'm gonna play video games and play a little halo a little fortnight with my friends so right now we he lacks that focus and I think that's the problem which we spread ourselves too thin we try lots of little things if you found your your passion in life and you want to study graphic design and it's not available at your school my suggestion is to take a semester off I don't know what it's called it's not called a sabbatical what is it called when you take a semester off what's the school terms left I think that is about is it's about me so okay you take a year off or a semester off and you go work and then you focus all your energy I'm not one person who's like giving you this opportunity to become an amazing graphic designer and you give it your all and you find like you know what this is it drop out of school man drop out of school you're trying Brenda so if I get it correctly be the thing and thank you so much for the entry was hmm it was amazing so the thing is it's in you still if I understand it correctly is not really one two so the order in which you do two things is not really that important but how well you do the things the other example that like they've worked before going to school yeah like they work two years and then you go to college to school I mean yeah I will say college and then they they can do it very easily because they already have they already have experience so afterwards they get even a better job than they had before but it was only because they focused on the first job so nice appointed it I didn't think about so I have to I have to give the elevator to you I'm not trying to win the debate I'm just trying to have a good conversation I love all the points that you brought up this fantastic you trying to win oh that's that's good now I do want to say this even for you Brando if you're going to school and you're starting you're entering your junior senior year you kind of up there and you feel like all the foundational skills are done and typically is how most design schools are set up then the application of what you learn is done in the senior year that might be the time for you to think of other options to go out into the field but not after you've given it your all to learn and squeeze every drop knowledge every opportunity that you can from school and I wrote down a couple little things there are things that you can do while you're still in school outside of the normal stuff that you're doing you can attend other lectures from from from majors that are outside of your discipline you can do workshops and seminars you can read more books and launch videos and you can become a student of architecture or design or branding whatever it is that you love to do that to supplement that and I think that's the way to do it and when you feel like you've learned enough back off on the gas pedal shift your focus to something else and go get jacked like Jeff Bezos and you could do that and then I 100% support you and you're gonna find something that's gonna be really amazing all these doors are gonna open up for you so instead of getting that one potential internship now you've got three job offers and then you have the rest of your life to continue to learn and to apply what it is that you know okay so thanks very much Brenda for joining me thank you for trying to win a debate and let's get somebody else on the on the call with us man thank you for the wardship in in Milan oh you were there man yeah yeah recognize this guy the worst man I am the worst okay awesome thanks for coming out mm-hmm thanks for calling me out on my bad memory yeah it's not a knack you guys I just I'm just so bad with remembering faces and names excuse me okay so who else we gonna talk to or you guys I'm gonna keep somebody awesome yeah there's a lot of comments oh my goodness and did you read anything I was cool I mean there was a couple of ones coming in but then you made some really good points and I feel like everyone kind of just started to agree with you well I want to say to this one person a body's like Aaron equals Tom Cruise I'm not sure I see the resemblance or what the sunglasses on oh I see I see yeah you do the Top Gun thing I think it's the newest Mission Impossible Mission Impossible okay yeah Jessica Jessica it's 3 a.m. where she's at she's half-asleep she's like I looked like a potato so she left the zoom call mmm great guys carried a chauffeur a little yeah awesome Oh what ask you a question ok go ahead ask me first just like a lot of people were talking about internships yeah and how how does that fit into the education I mean that's like working 100% love the idea of internships 100% support that I think that should be a requirement not a thing that you can think about doing I think any serious school should force you and require you to go out and work into the field for at least one semester but that's perfect because during that semester you're not doing schoolwork as well yours gonna go out into the field and you're gonna work for some money you're gonna learn from them and you're to gain some really valuable experience it's gonna make you smarter faster better for it so I'm 100% in support of internships there's an episode we put out about how to choose your next internship so you probably want to watch that one too because not all internships are created equally alright ready alright yeah I love this let's do it I have fronds where's the mic part of what you're holding I think you're holding this string yeah yeah okay that's better yeah yeah so hi I'm Franz I'm from Belgium you're a city in the Netherlands in Maastricht and my opinion is that we don't have to work I mean we shouldn't work while studying but I might be biased like couple things because first of all I have like a wealthy family so as I have to worry about like money and stuff and also the we don't have like big scholarship depth that I would say one year at my university which is like pretty good it's o only acquired 2,000 euros so it's like way less expensive that in the US and that's pretty much all the new universities in like Europe excel back from Paris and London stuff but like a lot of universities in Europe are not very expensive and that's why I might be Barris and also just my main like documented that think that like college is like the best years you can have and you should like enjoy it like fully so after class just go with your friends enjoy your time yeah yeah sure after like a long day don't watch work mmm and some universities you don't have time to work because sometimes you have like 8 hours flat yeah it's kind difficult and if you have free time just do what you love instead of yeah working I think that's all right that's what I feel ok well let me let me recap for everybody's tune in France who's in Belgium but studied in the Netherlands let's just recap he's been cursed because his parents are wealthy education is cheap where he's at and he's got a full head of hair it life is hard for this guy it's killing like yeah I believe you should go to school and party with your friends afterwards right that's wonderful ok well ok I mean let's talk about this there now now that France does not have to work he's like you should enjoy your life a little bit and I find that you know we had a nickname for the euros that went to art centre and they would have this kind of world philosophy and do a little bit of class do a little bit of talking drink a little wine I'm just extreme I'm like the terminator man I really had you know that right you know where I'm gonna you know what I'm to get with this so while my friends were busy partying hanging out shopping or doing whatever it is they were doing I was in the library I was in the computer lab I was up to 4:00 in the morning and every single night even though it wasn't necessary I remember having this discussion with a couple of classmates of mine I'm like how many all-nighters have you had and there could he mean all-nighters like you know nights where you barely sleep or like less than an hour and like oh I've never had an all-night and we're talking about juniors and seniors and I gotta tell you like I was thinking oh my god how is it possible that you've not had an all-nighter because I've had an all-nighter once a week since semester one how's this even possible and then I call I just managed my time a little differently I when I get home I do the work and my 9 o'clock ate dinner and I'm in bed it's like wow and I hate to say this and I know I'm gonna sound really judgmental and when I say this but so I guess I don't hate hate it because I'm gonna say it was that person's work reflected their level of enthusiasm enthusiasm and passion there's a line that I'm gonna mess up about a movie called desperate measures where one person is yelling another person like the the hero in the antihero the protagonist and the antagonist they're standing at each other antagonist says to the hero you don't what is it Aaron you know this quote okay I'm sorry it's gonna say something like you don't know where I begin where you end is where I begin so when that woman that man that student goes to sleep at nine o'clock or goes out that's just the beginning of my second or my third shift and that's how I've been able to train myself to be super hardcore so I love it euros they know how to enjoy life they know how to have a good time but my point of view is man you got to get after man you got to just put everything you have into this wonderful thing and you're saying experience the full college life and I agree with that but just make sure you're giving it everything you got because you're in a very wonderful place right like I said you have all your hair you come from wealthy family all right and education is cheap in Europe and that's wonderful yeah so alright maybe maybe you can do like a work-study program and live abroad and and open up your horizons right yeah that would be really cool for you and also one thing yeah working in my university is not very easy because we have like exams every eight weeks mm-hmm so like like two weeks before the exams you have to study like all the day you know and that's why it's quite difficult for my university mm-hmm I don't know anybody that's working while I said and everybody is like focusing on the exams and just passing the year no okay what are you studying in school I sort of international business oh okay hence the exams that must be tough man yeah yeah you gotta find out what to do with all that money right international business okay I see I see well I'm just curious what are you doing on this channel this is mostly for creative people do you is there a creative part inside that's like fashion a hobby and I want like to be my food to work okay like you said earlier for me University one now is to learn just like that the GUI or something I want to work to learn how to handle a company oh it's no business and yeah I really want to create my agency of design or something else I don't know but that's what what I want to do because I don't see myself working for some somebody else I think yeah that's why I'm learning like my strict into some business and also what's great about this university that on the third year so now I'm going to my second year the third day you have to go about for one year on exchange or internship and you have to so I think that's good great that's what okay so fantastic so all you designers that are in Europe if you're close to Belgium like by the time Francis graduated maybe he'll have started an agency he'll need lots of designers to work with or maybe you're a superstar design and you need a guy or a gal we've got like awesome juices management skills this is this is your partner potentially so this is fantastic let's follow up with you in a year and a half and let's see what happens all right when you're done with school all right thanks I wish you well yeah take care of my hair all right Matthew who else we got what else would we do now me turn it over to Aaron why like you somebody else let's do that Aaron what's up just some comments they're saying the good-looking guy always wins just like Sean yesterday you know what there is some study that good-looking people do better in life have more opportunities more doors open to them and that's why this is happening okay I feel like this is working while I go to school thing it only happens here in the States no thanks oh well we know that in some parts of Europe education is very affordable as it should be or free because they believe it to be a right and not a privilege and I do want to say this hey Brandon was a pretty good-looking guy too man oh yeah tchau tchau Brando okay we got somebody who's only gonna put on good-looking people from here and out so no ugly people Matthew I talked about our zoom participant only good-looking people okay who's who's the next good-looking guy hey Zeus what up what up name of the father let's do this Mexico and I just wanted to say my opinion love it maybe you should do work but more as an experience for you in order to just like when you go to school or you talk to a teacher or you go to a seminar or you watch the future and all that mm-hmm maybe try to do work in order to know if there is something you need to learn more maybe you go to school and if you go only to school do you only know what your teacher tells you and you may think that is very good information and it's the best but if you go to work and you met someone that is working in the industry maybe you start to learn that and maybe my teacher is not really and you say has not a lot of experience in this that is not that good information okay maybe it's the other way around yeah and be certain that this school is telling you what you need to know okay I love that point of view allowing dude that's allow me to respond okay that's me sharpening my knives not I'm not cleaning my hands okay let me respond to that I don't think it's okay for you go to school and not be an active participant in choosing your instructors in your classes do not be sheep just drawn into the slaughter because let's just say all schools are not created equal and some schools are designed just to take your money in fact there are a couple of schools in the United States that are being sued or under investigation right now because essentially what they are they're a loan operation right they use the school as a front to apply for loans on your behalf and then they get money and then put you in debt and then they send you out the door and by the time you're done you're like what has happened to me I'm one hundred two hundred thousand dollars in debt and I have no practical knowledge that I can go out and get a job with to pay down my loans that is a big big problem so hey-zeus is correct and saying that you know you need to have some kind of context and I'm going to tell you how to do this without going to work when I first entered school as in my first semester luckily I'd befriended a few people who are upper term who were sophomores juniors and seniors and I think they recognized in me at that time I'm gonna give myself a little bit of credit like this is a super intense guy who wants to learn and so they weren't like turning their noses at me and saying you're just a kid what do you know get on my face freshman right so I became friends with them and I would ask each and every one of them who was the best teacher you had what was the best class you had and I was just write down and why do you say that okay cuz they're really tough where somebody would say don't take that teacher there really hard so I would say I'm not gonna listen that person because difficulty should not be a factor in determining what teacher what class you take that's how I got myself into a lot of trouble like you need to take this person for painting Chris you need to take stand for for viscom three you're good enough to do that and I hadn't taken viscom one or two and apparently I was not good enough to take that class but they gave me a lot of information so I was never just going to enter into a class and say this is what I was just given and I was shocked later on as I'm nearing graduation I would ask people like oh did you have Rowland young as a did you have simon johnson for type and they would say to me no III didn't know it's take them more I heard he was really hard or the class was full so I couldn't take it and I said did you do everything in your power to take that class like what do you mean did you show up at 8 a.m. when registration was open no I just waited for the normal time I said when you when the class is full and you couldn't get in did you try to add that class did you make a big stink about it to the department chair because you are paying for this education and they said no I didn't do that so now I'm gonna flip it around that was my experience as a student now I'm gonna tell you my experience as a professor right so my class has a cap and art center wonderfully keeps the class sizes relatively small sometimes I have eight sometimes I have 12 students and as sometimes is the case there are more students that want to take the class than what is allowed and so they show up on day one there's six of them and they have their ad forms where you sign this I said it can't there's only I can only let 12 people in and they said well they will let me and if you sign this form so what's not fair there's six of you I can add one of you or maybe I'll add two of you okay and that's it how will we determine this so we put names in a hat I drew threw out two names and four people left and then to state but something remarkable happen the very next class a woman came back and she said that I thought it was rather random and arbitrary and I really wanted to take your class I went and spoke to my department chair and I insisted that I be able to take this class and I made a case of it and they're saying and now I had this letter from the department chair asking you specifically for a favor and exception to add this one student and I was like dang all right I respect the Moxie this woman she demanded from her teacher or at her department chair to let her into the class and I was like okay what is one more student I'll sign this and I sign it and she was in so that's what I mean in terms of the intensity when you want something you don't stop you don't accept and you don't just go in into it blind not knowing what it is that you're getting yourself into seek out the hardest classes the most rigorous courses and the classes the the hardest teachers that's what you want that's what get from it now if you need context outside and do that that's fine but the best thing you do is talk to people who have already experienced the the classes before you talk to them ask the people you respect what classes did you get the most from and go with that all right so excellent point that you brought up his dues in terms of knowing what is good when it's bad and you should know right when you stick your hand in boiling hot water you know it burns when you show up to class and the teachers like saying different things or is non-committal it doesn't appear like they've done anything important in their life you also know that's a bad class drop that drop that class ASAP it's better that you do nothing than to be a part of that class all right man yeah I know you want to say hey Zeus that this doesn't I don't know maybe this is for people that just don't feel that one answer or the other just keep keep in mind that your job is trying to get the best information the best education you can and be as prepared as you can yep never try this or never try that just we be certain that what you're learning is good for you and if you feel it's not always try to orient yourself to that direction yep okay thank you very much for joining us on the show today and thanks for tuning in man okay what else we got let's look at some other comments while Matt queues up the next person and then we're gonna wrap up the show I think yeah a couple of people are commenting that are the last gentleman was very articulate so Zeus good job props to you or were they talk about fronds no I'm sorry I forgot I'm focusing on the next thing I'm gonna say go ahead say it a lot of people are saying like this guy was saying I worked at a bar as a bouncer I had a kid and went to school full-time and another guy said from India I would love to concentrate only on my studies but due to current financial situations it's the only way I can obtain a degree is by working and putting myself through school so a lot of people have no choice they have to work to go to school mm-hmm so like what do you think about that mm-hmm I like that I like that I'm gonna respond to it before I respond to him and ask Matthew Matthew you have a point of view on that or you to focus on reading it's I'm too focused on setting up the next thing okay Aaron I would like for your opinion on this before I give you mine my opinion I'll be honest with you I don't have a really strong opinion here so I feel like every time I try to talk and say something it comes out weird and I just I don't believe in it too much yet I guess for you man I love your support so both you and Erica thank you so I love that if I ask you a question you don't have an answer you you're as transparent as you can is like I don't have a point of view so let's move on perfect let's talk about this I did see a lot of these comments where some of these are single parents or raising a family's married and they have to do this and they they see no other way right so this is like kind of a weird conundrum a catch-22 where you want to go to school so you can get a job and you can't get a job because you need to get an education this is one of these things where it's really fractured I get it typically if you're not a single parent if you have a partner what I would like to suggest if this is at all possible I know I'm not I've tried not being insensitive to this is to have one partner focused on their career why the other one goes to school because there's no point in both you guys kind of spread so thin that you can't really be a great student so the jobs that you can get when you get out of school aren't great and you're not you're also not really there as a dad or a mom and it's all messed up like they're not getting a parent you're not getting the education you're not making enough money and this is not going to solve your problem and I've seen many people at school classmates of mine and and former students of mine whose partner either boyfriend or girlfriend was putting them through school and they while the other one works and that's how they made it work and then when the one graduated they went to work ASAP and the other person went to school I love seeing that that's what partners are for so this might be opening the can for a bigger discussion about finding the right partners in life that you're both equally contributing to the relationship and you realize that certain sacrifices have to be made and the one the students that have this kind of complex life balance work school issue to juggle they did it really well because they had a really great partner who knew that while they're in school they're going to be really focus so I made like date night or looking after little Johnny was not gonna be the priority for the time because you have to make those sacrifices today for tomorrow Jim Rohn talks about this a lot and he likes to talk about seasons and a metaphor with ants and ants work all summer all spring long to prepare for the winter and they're the most industrious kind of insects in the animal kingdom right they're always preparing for winter so while other animals are freezing or starving they have a nest egg of food and supplies so they're always they're always able to get through and survive there's a lot of virtue to to see from those people so you gotta make those sacrifices you have to give up something if you want to get something you don't have the last thing I want to say is this degrees at least in the design field and probably in other fields now too are highly overrated so don't look as at the degree as your ticket to getting the job of your dreams it's really what's in your head and what you know how to do so seek out those opportunities first it is quite possible that in this case instead of going to school that you seek some very low-level entry just like monkey work job and a firm you really want to work with or work at and then you begin there and then you watch and you look over people's shoulders and you learn and you keep learning that way that's the case of mr. Danny out who is one of the most revered respected main title designers living today he did that he worked odd and end jobs learned as much as he could read the manuals and worked his way up until he became the designer he has today and almost all of that was self-taught so he didn't needed to read even go to school I think past high school I don't I don't know if you even went to college alright and he's doing just fine there's this fallacy that's been propagated up that degrees mean something they mean something if you're a doctor and a lawyer but in the world of design it doesn't mean jack this is from 23 years of working I don't care where you went to school I don't care if you went to school I don't care what degree you got if you're willing to show up if you have a good head on your shoulders and you're willing to learn I think you have the potential of becoming great let's move on do we have another person that wants to talk and add to this debate we do we have joining us is Nicolas good-looking I alright er pretty good-looking guys Nicolas where you from man I'm from Slovenia Selenia is that where everyone's tall good-looking okay the moment of awkwardness okay what's your point of view man so basically I'm from selenium which is from Europe and also our education system is free I'm currently going to third year of the University or graphic interactive communications which is designed basically and I just feel like I'm not getting much of the I don't know knowledge from the University so I think by working I have the best chances of getting any real practical knowledge okay so if I'm hearing you correctly you're a little concerned that your teachers are not really giving you practical knowledge that there's a little question mark that they may or may not know what they're talking about is that what I'm hearing basics yeah okay like I don't want to mince words so your teachers suck they don't have any real work experience they're like they're career teachers and that's a problem okay so it's wonderful so here's where we we have an interesting thing where education is free right one of my biggest arguments thus far was you paid all this money to learn something only to do something else that didn't make sense but when you paid nothing for the education you can choose to do whatever you want because you're not giving up that money to learn something else so this is wonderful I guess it's nice to be in Europe I want to change the system here man and we're gonna do our best to make education affordable but all right so in your case when when it's free in that particular situation do whatever you want learn from wherever and I think you do I I have to start to supplement your education because truth be told there and not a ton of Slovenia designers that I know that's like a household name right you got to so let's figure this thing out man what are you gonna say I didn't mean to cut you up thanks for the input I'm actually now in the process of somehow finding work and I mean I basically I did really good work in school and I'm actually one of the professors also said I'd be really good stuff and then he connected with one of the smaller agencies but the problem there was that I don't think they were that big enough that they could actually incorporate me so-oh-oh relation got kind of I don't know they just didn't know what to do with me so I'm currently looking for getting into a bigger agency a studio and I guess I like your advice and input on how to best present myself there yeah I mean yeah okay I do want to say this these probably the single most important thing you can learn in school is learning how to learn I know that sounds really wedding how to learn so while you're in school and no school is perfect they do their best and with what they have right whatever and if you're in class and you feel like okay I'm only gonna get so much from this class you may want to lower the priority of that class and how much time it consumes from you if you're not learning something either drop the class or do the bare minimum to get a passing grade passing grade is like C or D as long as you don't fail right and then spend the rest of your time devouring content and materials from people that you do feel like you're gonna learn from so if there's an author we read author read their book of watch their seminars or videos online and since education is free you have some money you can do something with that and that's great and then this is fantastic and it's wonderful to be in a place where that is actually an option where education is free so you can think about other things that you can do right okay so what kind of programs are you learning on your own now I mean when you said that's what I'm doing what kind of educational material are using to supplement your your not that well of course of course I mean I mean I was mostly I basically see you as the main source and guidance like I read the up ceiling sheep mm-hmm and we're just like yeah we're on searching for books and I'm going to the library but it's just like I don't know how to then start I don't know how to then start getting competitive and just like okay going with my career all right I'm gonna give you a tip I'm gonna give you up right now okay everybody that's watching if you want to get better what you're doing it's really straightforward but you're gonna have to get over yourself on this one little thing what I want you to do is look at a piece of work that you really think that's amazing and I want you to do your best to copy it you can learn so much by copying in for many hundreds of years this is how artists taught other artists they were sitting in a room and it would just work for masters and just copy their paintings to a point in which you could not tell the difference between what the artist did and his understudy okay so that's what this is an assist an actual assignment I used to give to my students I would say tell me who your heroes are just tell me the most amazing work that you feel like so far out of reach and then they would pick all these things and we look at them I said okay next week what I want you to do is come back and teach us how to do this work and their jaws hit the floor like no we admire this work how is it that we we can do this I said I believe in learning how to learn in treatment old I don't how to do that so you guys do it and you figure it out and here's the surprising part cuz you think you know what a cruel mean teacher I am in two weeks not only were they able to figure out how to do something very close to what they admired in some cases when I was critiquing the work I mixed up which was the original and which was the copy okay not only do they do it they had to teach the class and put together step by step instruction on how to do that very thing and they all surprised themselves because I asked him at the beginning of the class what's your level of confidence that you can actually pull this off and most of them were between 1 and 3 on a scale of 10 afterwards I all gave them 8 9 and some of them tens because of how good they were the only rule the only rule to the master copy was you cannot use any element from the original image you can't just literally lift that image and put it on top of yours and then change some things they had to recreate every element in one way or the other and so people learn how to use illustrator they learn how to make brushes they learn how to photograph 3d I mean real models because they don't know how to do 3d some of them didn't know how to illustrate so they figured out how to use poser and render a cel shaded thing and then Photoshop their way through it so that's incredible I'm gonna tell you guys right now that's one of the best ways to learn and the reason why I said you have to get over one thing is people have a hang-up over copying things like when I look at a website and it's doing really well in terms of its messaging and the way it flows through like a cool landing page I don't try to look at it to kind of just dissect parts of it I look at the whole thing I just copied the whole structure if they have a giant headline I try and figure out what my giant headline is if they come in with a value proposition that's important as a benefit to the customers that's what I do if they have three customer testimonials afterwards I put in three customer testimonials that's what you do that's how you learn you would be an idiot you'd be wasting your time if you did it any other way there's the wool that's full of information you're not utilizing it if you're not gonna do that so that's how I'm gonna tell you to learn okay all right Nicholas yeah all right stay good-looking stay lean stay tall good talking to you talk to somebody else Matthew or Aaron who Aaron Reed made the comment there's so many comments on yeah there's a little bit of an argument about what's the poorest country you know let's not go there there are a lot of poor countries out there unfortunately yeah there's a couple of interesting comments so I copied and pasted them here okay basically this Selene Hernandez is saying like it's important to to work in your field to gain experience if that's really what you want to do but if you're just working to get by that that's not like that's what you're saying right if you have a job and you're looking as you're learning you're getting education from this job then you should do that if your school is like a crappy school and you're not learning anything but if you're just working because you need some money that's not a good reason all right how about make a metaphor for your errand you know we go to lunch quite often we drive places and you'll see me and we're driving in in California in Los Angeles the freeways here are like five six lanes wide there's lots of lanes right and our general point of frustration is when somebody straddles two lanes like you're gonna exit are you gonna stay in this Lane because you're creating a potential hazard for everybody behind you because you're a little indecisive right or you see somebody turn on the turn signal and then they don't go and they like what is going on that's it to me that's the metaphor for your life pick a lane and just go down a lane if you learn more from work pick that lane you just go down that Lane if you learn more from school do that if you have 99 teachers at school that suck but one that's really good I would do three independent studies with them I would just do everything I can to just suck up as much knowledge from that one instructor as you can that's what I did Simon Johnson a type instructor at Art Center I took him for type 1 for type 2 for advanced corporate design I did an internship for him and I've kept a have maintained a relationship with afterwards that's what I did Rowland young an amazing teacher took him for calm design intro to advertising again I took as much as I could from each instructor that that was giving me what I wanted in life and it wasn't the same for everybody obviously because some people had rolled on young and didn't like the way he taught he was too aggressive he was too in your face he was too intimidating they took another instructor that's totally fine so everybody can figure out what is the best learning model for them the modality if you're a book reader like like some of us and you'd like to read that's great if you don't like to read and you like to hear and throughout what is it audiobooks you can do that if you like to listen to podcast or watch YouTube videos or you need to do things with your hands you're like a kinesthetic style learner do that do whatever it is that makes you the best person that you can be but for heaven's sake pick a lane that's all I want to say all right are we done we got one more we don't you got one more okay we're gonna wrap this up you guys cuz d'Alene I'm picking right now it's lunch whoo we got Matthew we got John joining us John last but not least the best-looking person thus far let's rock a row John where you from it's the beard man I am I'm from Wales Wales all right so um well I want to discuss sorry I'm nervous I'm sure don't be nervous man there's only a couple hundred people watching you ran it don't worry yeah I noticed and so my experience is from not recently I went to school nine years ago okay and I want to bring to that is this is for anybody who's in school and we just currently just getting ready to leave school to back up things have been said earlier the cheers make the course if you've got somebody who who's willing to spend time with you who gives you all the information you could possibly need then you're gonna benefit from it whatever shadow but however if you've got cheer who isn't as interested as they could be you will you're gonna slack I mean in regards to working well learning to do it I mean it brings you the practical skills when you leave school that you're gonna need to manage I mean to be fair I'm 30 now I left school when I was 21 and there I am a freelance writer that's what I do I've worked it I worked in industry I worked for companies and worked in design studios but parcel I find freelance and suits me to the ground and so yeah my point really is yes do it dude work your skill you'll do yourself so many favours on the long run okay fantastic things yeah keep up sighting me to catch off at that sorry in regards to your statement earlier with the partners as well mm-hmm I'd like to start test me without my partner she's named Sarah we're jb married next year and she was brilliant when i was getting out of touch with design and I was really logging on what was still in style what wasn't in style mm-hmm and she supported me so just for anybody who's got partner as well just speak them up I mean really this is too much of this I can't afford to go to school I can't afford to do this I can't afford to do that but then the reality is if it's a passion and if it's a dream find a way to make it work mm-hmm now I do want to say this and thank you for mentioning your life partner and something whose you're gonna get married to so first of all you want to do a right you want to get married make sure that you're committed she's supporting you and then you want to make sure you turn around and give her the same support so once you get work and you're on your feet just say honey what was your dream I don't want it to be about my dream and I'll support you too it's a merger right never decided ever what you want to do well that's okay but you know what to be fair though to be fair she supported you for a long time and she makes a good she's a good partner in that way but maybe when you're in a place where you're feeling good maybe that'll just take some pressure off her and she can actually clear our mind and kind of listen to her heart our heart let me try and say that correctly oh yeah you know listen to her heart and follow your heart's desire man and that's how you can be fulfilled because one thing that I do know having been married now for quite a few years going on two decades I just do want to say this is that when both people are happy and pursuing what it is that one in life that makes for a much stronger relationship whether you're married or life partners whatever it is you both need to be happy because otherwise at some point somebody might start to feel resentful that you got your life and you have your dream and you're the star and you get to do all your things but then they've been in the back kind of in the passenger seat supporting the whole time so I think that's really important I don't want to get too far off in relationships cuz it's not a relationship show just like the and the other thing earlier on I put em in regards to well if you don't have a degree and you answered that spot on my ad in the regards there because I mean it'd be fair I've recently started a affectively is going to be a design agency yeah I've started the skull trap and with it's like that's coming on slowly but surely and to be fair like my partner had a point leading up to this why is it when you go in comma in front like a hundred people you get nervous oh it's only 250 don't worry it's only 250 exit just not a little bit bad did you remember it yes I did okay in regards to it and when it comes to hiring people I know from artifact from parcel experience when I had a lack of experience I still have people going to me right yeah you've got the skills there we can see you've got the skills we'll utilize them on stage one two three four five and at any point if somebody does come up and go well I'm not qualified but you can see that skill about them then it's definitely those things the degree doesn't matter we work in a creative field and as such the create the creativity versus the ability is sometimes those need to be there the actual drive to see what something's gonna do instead of them show me a piece of paper and going yes I'm qualified to do this my other qualifications but can do the job yep okay thank you for weighing in on that and and backing me up on that and I will say this is a person who has seen and hired and so many people hundreds if not thousands of resumes before some people have gone to school one or terrible and some people who have never gone to school have never been formally trained are incredible so that doesn't mean anything there's no predictor of success to me it's the individual it's their portfolio okay I want to share a short story and then I want to cut to Zack Wallace because I want to promote the next episode I want to talk about a little bit okay so thanks for joining us John thanks for bringing up thank you but okay thank you guys you're welcome I'm gonna tell you a story about Karen wings she was a former student of mine she took sequential design with me and she brought some kind of incredible energy and enthusiasm and curiosity that when I taught again I asked her to be my ta and she went up teeing ta aim for me for three classes maybe four and so she got as much of what I had to offer as possible and then after she finished school she came up to me and asked me hey can I be your apprentice can I be your assistant whatever I'm like okay I've not really had one let's do it so she wound up working for me for a period of year so like I said before you fight you guys find somebody that you connect with it could be someone in there working world or it could be a professor or could even be a classmate if the classmate is just a rock star say you know what this is stupid Matt I'm not getting a lot from school but I'd love to like do projects with you because I really look up to you I admire the way you think and the way you put solve problems I can learn from you so seek those people out and go 100 percent be committed to it everybody else that's not named Zach Wallace on the call please mute your microphone I hear a trash truck backing up here Zach Wallace how you doing man pretty good okay Zach so here's thing full confession full transparency I brought Zach on because I thought he had this hot debate with me because he wanted to have an argument with me about not working or working while in school and it turns out he wanted to talk about something totally different my bad my brain is scrambled I'm not as young as I used to be of course so Zach you have a question why don't you ask a question I'm not gonna answer but we will do a follow-up episode for everybody wants to hear this coming strong what's your question Zach I am building freelance into a business and so there's lots of questions regarding how to organize that how to find bigger clients how to charge more how to present yourself better than you know cheap overseas labor and because there's so much competition and web development you know so I don't really want to become huge and become an agency and have a ton of employees and stuff I just want to make a good living and build a freelance business okay Zach you did not an excellent job of presenting yourself there let me let me help you out there okay zach is a developer he's watched several of our episodes when we talk about value-based pricing he's intrigued by it he wants to be able to do it he doesn't know how a developer even can actually approach doing value-based pricing so when I get into it that presents a lot of challenges for me because for the most part if you're a developer it's kind of a commodity a lot of different people can do it so unfortunately it tends to go to a qualified person but whoever is gonna come in at the lowest price so that's a big problem a big challenge of solve I'm not humpers I'm confident I can help figure this thing out but I'm gonna give up my darndest so Zach thanks for setting that up I think it's time for say goodbye to every single person I haven't said goodbye to or hello to the dream team in a long time right now it's Aaron Matthew and Erica thank you for making this show happen I know there's a lot of behind the scenes stuff that you guys do and Erica is always quick on the keys so that's why the show runs so smoothly that's why my stress level is much lower than it used to be and I also want to thank everybody that's joined us today on this live webinar conference call kind of thing and bringing your points of view I love seeing you guys I love talking to you and Randall I love seeing you again right is he still there yeah there we go okay so at this point I'm gonna say goodbye thank you for tuning in on Facebook and on YouTube I'm gonna read a lot of your comments and continue to answer them I think on Facebook especially and let's get out of here so I'm gonna when we play the music where's the music


  • Liang Fang says:

    thank you

  • Gaudenz Raiber says:

    I try to give 100% of everything I do. It might look hard in the end I will be prepared 1000%.

  • Elliot Pessah says:

    lol to the all-nighter comments if your in animation or video production you sleep while it renders lol

  • Azhar Khan says:

    Chris, your point of view is to learn one thing as much as you can and then step to another one. If two things are related in a way that you have to learn both of them to become what you aspire to become. And, you are doing good in both of them – one taught in university and other through work – I think it would be a waste of opportunity to not do it if you can do it together.

  • abigaillyj says:

    This discussion comes at just the right timing. About to enroll into my grad programme this Aug, and intending to do it whilst working full time. I hope i can juggle well >.< Other than graphic design, i think the mindset and attitude conveyed throughout the show are really applicable to other industries as well. Civil engineer here btw. Love this channel!

  • D J says:

    1:02:00 Sounds like a challenge for all the Futur(ist) out there. I'm down!

  • amos_south.africa says:

    The futur, I understand work as in getting a job but what if I am working with clients out of school as a freelancer. Do you call that working while studying? @amos_south africa.

  • Kc Doodles says:

    Part of me just wants to drop everything and go to Europe,study there if they let me lol

  • Disrupter64 says:

    Worked throughout undergrad; as soon as exams rolled around, I quit. Every time. Priorities.
    Throughout law school, loans and frugal living. Never compromise.

  • Who Knowsyou says:

    Is art center an actual college or university where you can get a bachelor or master's degree? Here in europe, there's no way even the most talented students can get an A. It never happens. The teachers are very critical and usually give out 50%-70% scores – and that's seen as fantastic. 70% is rare to get. The most I saw anyone get is 75%. (which I think is around a B+?) And that particular talented student worked VERY hard and is seen as the top student. No one gets 80% or an A. I'm curious if this is more of a cultural thing in American schools or just an Art center thing.

  • Siviwe Jali says:

    I feel so strongly about this topic, I am an Industrial Designer and when I did my degree, I focused most of time learning new skills and learnt how I learn, I gave myself an opportunity to discover myself and understand how I process information. This is a vital thing for anyone in any field. But at the same time I had very little money compared to my classmates and I learnt how to work with very little and how to make things out of nothing. So to conclude I believe that if you can learn without getting a Job then do it and soak up all the information that one can.

  • FMSpeedart says:

    I think there's an important distinction to make between professional work and casual work. I work casually as a freelancer who is given jobs on occasion. I find that I learn much more from my freelancing job than I do from uni. However Uni also gives me the ever-sought-after piece of paper which is a must for all these graphic design jobs, at least here in Australia.

    I work 3 jobs (including freelancing) and do full-time Uni at the same time. I am incredibly dedicated to my craft and passionate about design. I always invite opportunities to break into the design world, and always make room for design when it can teach me things.

    And besides, if I were to draw my learning from just one source, then I would not be a unique and powerful designer. I work as a labourer, pizza-boy, and freelance designer, and my jobs each provide me with a unique experience which I can draw from in design.

    It's true that it's best to do one thing right, but I'm not here to do that right now. I'm here to learn about life and design and focus and discipline. And I intend to practice my craft when I launch into my career.

    Great show though and I never know what might change so who knows.

  • Cuban Nerd says:

    I wish I would have gone to Art Center. I checked the curriculum and it's close to the design school I went to in Cuba. My college experience here in the US was a mixed bag. It went from having really excellent and to borderline unprofessional professors, and the principles of design curriculum was awful. My parents told me not to study and to focus on my school but since we were practically fresh off the boat and with nothing, after a couple of years I had to get some freelance or part-time jobs as a production designer to get school supplies and books for school. I don't regret going to college here. Thanks to the connections I made, I've landed some good projects and my current job. However, the school was way too expensive for the quality of content. Definitely not worth the student loans that I'm still paying. I think that has made me a bit bitter. I was fortunate to get a whole year of design basics in my home country with a far better curriculum but with no resources nor access to the internet. 🙁

  • Tarek S. says:

    Thanks for the amazing episode that's full of great opinions and different point of views… Also thanks for your time you're giving, sharing very valuable discussions, knowledge, and experiences.

    💙 Greetings from Jordan 💙

  • Tamara Zarić says:

    Forever grateful for this channel, especially love these long live streams. You never fail to remind me where the right path is at times when I forget, both for business and life in general, and I am always in awe of how selflessly you guys share your knowledge. One of my top priorities right now is to be able to give something back to you for everything I learned here. For now just know that we all deeply appreciate what you're doing here. Cheers!

  • Caylee Lillian says:

    Loving that cap 😀

  • London Jones says:

    @55:45 I strongly agree with this. I learned more from outside of school (Work, theFuture, other resources, etc.). I believed that having a degree in the art field is overrated. If you are motivated towards something, then you would seek those oppurtunities. I've been offered many oppurtunities while at school from my personal outside projects, and I had to turn it down because I was in school. (P.S. My original plan was not to go to school, but I went because of my parents.)

  • Rudrakshbanerjie says:

    Love the Snapback, Chris!

  • Julianna Okike says:

    I'm caught up trying to keep them occupied and myself sane.

  • Julianna Okike says:

    I also may need to make adjustments since I'm not a parental unit yet.

  • Julianna Okike says:

    I never had a problem until now.

  • sam taylor says:

    I loved this! I'm a Human-Centered Design major and a current sophomore at Virginia Commonwealth University. Thankfully, I was able to get a scholarship to cover about 70% of my tuition and fees, although I have still been working at the Graphics Lab at my school. I've been trying to milk everything I can out of it just so I can be sure I get my money's worth. It is interesting though because I think the amount of effort/work people feel they should put into school really depends on the amount of they are personally investing. Most students I've talked to that put there all into it are paying for their degree themselves. Fantastic stream as always. :~)

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